I am absolutely blown away at this web site and the posters and the stories on it.A We have had an escalating problem in our home for a year and a half now with my son's obsessive playing of WOW and I had NO idea of how many parents and families had been suffering the exact same things.A I am engrossed in all your posts and stories... I want to read every single one of them... it seems like I am seeing our story on every page.
My 15 year old son has always been the sweetest, gentlest kid - he's got a big head of blonde curly hair and I always called him my "Willy Bear."A He has been homeschooled since the fourth grade and, even though of course we have our ups and downs over discipline, he was always the sunny one.A The kid where you could knock your heads against each other and 5 minutes later it would be, "Mom, I love you."A He was always the most popular and magnetic kid in any group: Scouts, church, what have you.
He had always had a bit of a compulsive streak in him, I'll admit: and I know he gets it, at least in part, right from me.A I was a cigarette addict for way too long (although I did quit before I got pregnant with him).A And, his dad also spent way too much time and money at the racetrack, although again that basically ended once we started our family.A So, I know from addiction.
My son always liked video games - even from the start, with those dopey Oregon Trail games or Treasure Mountain or Age of Empires, he was the kid who could spend hours engrossed.A He eventually moved on to "shoot em up" games like Mortal Combat about which I had more reservations, but especially being homeschooled, we wanted him to be able to have something in common with the other kids, so we permitted it.A But this WOW thing has just been another experience altogether.A Things have deteriorated so extremely in our house that we are now sending our son back to public school, just to get him away from the computer for a few hours a day, and the fights and arguments and disappointments have been never-ending (and have caused real damage to our relationship).
I have been so terribly saddened now that I have realized what behaviors playing the game has created.A Our son has almost completely isolated himself.A For instance, he was an avid Boy Scout, but has skipped at least 1/2 his meetings and ALL his campouts this year.A Needless to say, he hasn't advanced at all this year.A He refuses to attend family functions or special times for his siblings (his sister gave an important speech a couple of months ago and he skipped it to play).A He won't go to outings or even to the store or library with us anymore.A He regularly skips his language class to play.A He gets up in the middle of the night and sneaks upstairs, or gets up at 4 a.m. and then goes back to sleep until noon.A If we keep him off the "main" computer, he pays his brother to use his laptop.
And the worst thing is that he seems to have become a habitual liar.A I feel that I can no longer leave him or trust him to do anything because no matter what, he will just play instead.A If I ask him to make supper or do any chores or schoolwork while we're gone, there is ZERO chance any of it will happen.A He'll sit down and start to game and that will be that... no matter what the consequences, or how much he lets me down, or anything.
I guess I could go on and on but I will close by saying, my son did find this group/board and is on his way toward cancelling the WOW account.A I am just so grateful to you all here for listening and providing support, most importantly to my son, who really needs it.A If you could see what a wonderful, nice boy he was before WOW took over his life, you would truly know, he's worth saving.
Hugs,
Jane in CT
Welcome Jane! We are so happy to have you and your son visiting our boards. I do hope you stay awhile ~ there is quite a lot to learn here not only from ex-gamers, but from the parents of gamers. Again, welcome! Love, Solei
-6 Years Free of Online Gaming-
I can see your son before WoW...as can most of the other parents who post here.A He is so mature and open that you should be proud! I am so glad that he was willing to read and post here and even more, accept that his excessive gaming has had a negative impact on many aspects of his life. For whatever it is worth, I feel certain that if you, as a family, devote yourselves to ending this cycle you will have your old relationship back.A We struggled for way over a year before we had to take drastic measures; that was because our son was 17 and unlike yours, wouldn't even consider that the game was causing him problems. We knew our time was limited. My husband and I both felt like we were just characters in a strategy game.A He had lost his sense of honesty...I referred to it as his moral compass.A The behaviors are the same almost all the time; social isolation, dishonesty about almost everything, lack of interest in anything outside the game, declinging grades. Our son has been WoW free for 8 months; with lots of therapy and a 12-Step program he is now the same old dynamic, social, intelligent, happy, funny, wonderful kid we knew.A Believe me, we spent many, many months wondering if we'd simply been kidding ourselves and had actually raised an undisciplined, unmotivated monster! You've taken the most important step...the first one, and it seems as though you're all on the same page. It's not going to be easy but you can do it! We are all here for you, your son, your family.
Welcome Jane. You are ahead of many of us because your son seems to have recognized he has a problem and has told you about this site. You have come here and now know you are not alone and VERY IMPORTANTLY not resisting the idea that this is an addiction. If you have read my posts about my addicted daughter, you'll see how much ahead you are. Both my husband and daughter have refused to see this as an addiction. Thankfully she has not played the game for a couple of months now. You describe changes in your child that many of the parents here recognize. The virtual world replaces the real one and every important aspect of life in the real world is neglected. The family dynamic that results is awful. It is such a treat to occasionally do activities with my daughter again. After the visit to her counselor tonight, we went out for a
bite and a sundae and the three of us actually talked about stuff, including maybe going to take a look at a college next week. Good luck. Hopefully you both keep coming for support.
Welcome Jane from yet another parent. Nice to see that Willy actually took our advice and sent you here. This addiction is just so hard to understand if you haven't seen it, and even if you have. Reading the posts from gamers will help you understand what he is going through, and reading the posts from parents will help you feel less alone. Be sure you both understand that he was sucked into a game designed by psychologists to be purposely as addicting as possible. I think kids need to know that they are not total losers just because this happened to them. Folks much older than he is are getting sucked in too. He has some personal responsibility, of course, but he should not feel ashamed that this happened. The good news is that he is young and if he really does get out of WoW successfully at 15, he has plenty of time to recover and finish high school with decent grades and good ACT or SAT scores. That's so much better than getting addicted away at college like my son did, and failing three semesters. You are both welcome here. You are not alone.
"Small service is true service while it lasts. Of humblest friends, bright creature! scorn not one
The daisy, by the shadow that it casts,
Protects the lingering dewdrop from the sun." -------William Wordsworth
Thank you all so much for your interesting and supportive replies.A This is amazing, that there are so many parents out there who are going through this and are willing to lend a helping hand.A Maybe one day our situation will resolve such that I can be one of those helpers too!! Oh man yesterday was SO hard.A It was my son's first day not playing WOW since he started (at least a day when he wasn't away at camp or backpacking)... probably since about 18 to 24 months ago now.A He seems to have no idea what to do with himself.A He was swinging between being weepy and pathetically sad, to being aggressively angry and snarling at me and his siblings, and just once in a while there would be a spark of interest or "lightness" in his manner.A He also didn't eat hardly anything (very unusual for this child) and he's incredibly exhausted.A A I have decided - and I don't know if this is advisable or not - that he cannot, at least for now, be left at home without my or his father's direct supervision.A This means that, at least for now, he will come with me everywhere I go.A Last night I had to go to an evening meeting and he threw a huge, major fit about having to go along.A I think he had a secret agenda to play again, since it turns out he didn't delete the WOW files on his brother's laptop.A He ultimately did go, but I shudder to think what my neighbors made of the screaming and yelling and banging that ensued. This is going to be a big change!A Upon reflection I have realized that over the past two years I have incorporated more and more activities that take me out of the house and away from him.A I am an extremely active volunteer in my community, with evening meetings probably 3-4 times a week, and I also work out (either running or weightlifting) from 1-2 hours/day.A And, my husband is gone every day until at least 9:30 (he commutes over 4 hours/day) and on the weekends, he's a competitive cyclist so he's off riding his bike for upwards of 4-5 hours.A Although I did make efforts to regulate my son's play during the week, my husband essentially did not care how long he played on the weekends (he wasn't making noise and that was all good so far as my husband was concerned) so he got in a huge amount of playing during those times.A Bottom line, my son has had a huge amount of "alone time"... and it now appears that every second of it got sucked into WOW. These games are unbelievably pernicious!A I have been doing research on them and talking to my son, and it's SO clear to me how they are designed to meet (or appear to meet) people's emotional needs.A My husband says that some of the techniques they use are also used in the gambling industry, to keep people playing slot machines or other games for literally hours or days on end.A I had always thought the biggest problem with computer games was the violence (my son used to play a lot of "first person shooters") but in comparision, that seems mild! What I am really struggling with right now (in addition to the "no time left alone" issue I discussed above) is the fact that, when I was quitting smoking, I incorporated little treats or rewards in my day to help me deal.A But with my son, there seems to be nothing else that makes him happy.A He's not interested in anything else and doesn't care for anything else... the only thing that seems like it would be a good reward would be computer time on WOW, and of course that cannot happen!A I feel like one of our highest priorities right now should be just, helping him start living a bit more healthily.A Although he isn't overweight, he isn't close to being in the kind of shape he could be at his age... especially since if left to himself he would stay crumped up in a chair in front of the monitor all day, every day.A He also doesn't eat as well as he should... so I am trying a bunch of things to help him feel a bit better physically.A I am not compelling him to do schoolwork, at least for now: I told him he could read this board, or the WOW detox board, and that was what he could do instead of schoolwork. Okay I'm sorry I'm rambling... any thoughts or feedback will continue to be appreciated!!! Jane in CT (mom to willyhog)
Dearest Jane, It took a long while before I found things that made me as "happy" as WoW did... and truthfully, I wasn't really happy, I just really enjoyed the "rush" that playing gave me, and I feel that a lot of addicts experience that. It is so wonderful that your son has caught this addiction early on. Keep up the good, and positive work. Sending TONS of prayers your way,
Love,
Katey PS. Where in CT are you? My sister lives in Branford.
-6 Years Free of Online Gaming-
Hi, you won't believe this, but we are in Guilford!!! The very next town "up the line" from Branford... which is a lovely community BTW... Thank you so very much for your kind wishes. Today is a new day and another chance to help my son get better. I love him so much, and I am so upset at what he has become as a result of this game. The more I read about this, the more I'm learning about how it is structured to ensnare people exactly like my son. It's so clear to me, he's going to have to get a handle on this thing, or there will be some really awful and scary results. Thanks again and I'm sure we'll be "speaking" a lot... Jane in CT (mom to willyhog)
You and your son are great Jane, there will surely be recovery if you stick through it together ...
Jane, the violent outburst seem to be part of the package with some of the teens. The emotional seduction is major for them as well. Read little hippie's posts for suggestions on filling the time. You absolutely cannot reward him with game time. Being cranky and tired once they stop playing seems to be the norm. I'd say we can't worry too much about what the neighbors think. One Sunday in March, I had two police cruisers and an ambulance show up at my house;our child was hospitalized for a week. My older daughter said that it must have been embarrassing: I said, if the choice is between being embarrassed and saving my child, I'll choose "embarrassed" every time. See if you can get him reengaged with some of the activities he like before he got into the game. I started rewarding my daughter with time out with her friends (say a movie) if she engaged in appropriate behaviors. No money because I was afraid that she'd use it to buy time cards (we never paid for the game or time on). Maybe a job might be wise. How about sending him away to a camp for the summer where there is no access to computers? Since summer is coming up, it is going to be a challenge to keep him occupied. We used to send my older daughter to a camp she loved in Mass when we lived there. Let me know if you want the info.
Thank you Shiva and Satya, today is going to be day #2 WOW-free in this house, and one of the things that's going to happen is that the character (or characters? I'm still not straight on this) will have to be deleted, and game files that might permit re-accessing the game will have to go as well. A Also, we keep on getting emails from all these folks offering free periods and such. A One provider is even called "addicting games" - I used to think that was amusing but I don't anymore. A I am going to unsubscribe and mark all these as spam. A We also get PC Gaming and EA Games magazines... I'll have to be the one to get the mail and intercept this stuff before it comes in to re-fuel the fantasies. A It seems like this is going to be a full-time job for a while!!! Satya, I truly appreciate your feedback on the "withdrawal" symptoms.A I'm going to read those posts you suggested.A Willy says he feels worse today than he did yesterday!A But we are sending him to two weeks of Boy Scout camp this summer - good in many ways but also filled with fiend gamers.A They can sit around and talk WOW for days on end even when they're not playing.A We'll have to talk about how to anticipate this situation and prepare for it.A What is the name of the camp in Massachusetts?A Other than that, he and I and his sister are set to do two weeks backpacking on the Long Trail in Vermont, and the rest of the time, he's going to be helping me with some heavy-duty home maintenance like painting and landscaping (yes, I'll pay him, at least in some ways if not $$$). Thanks for all the suggestions, they are sooooo helpful, Jane in CT (mom to willyhog)
Hello! My name is Kathy and I am a recovering WOW addict. Yes, he probably has more than one character. Most WOW players have many characters so that they have a little variety/different personalities in their fantasy world. Deleting all of them is a good start, but there are other things you can do to help ensure he can't go back. Deleting characters is a reversible thing because Blizzard will 'revive' characters on request at least once per account. I would recommend having your son disenchant (DE in game terms) all his gear. If he doesn't have an enchanter, than have him vendor it all. Then have him delete/give away all his gold. What this does, if he has his characters restored, is make it so that he has a long grind to get gear to get his characters truly playable again. The other thing I would do is to call Blizzard and have the email address changed on the account to one that he doesn't have access to. Then go in and change the password on the account so that he no longer has access to the account. Deleting characters and files are good things, but the games can be easily reinstalled and the account VERY easily reopened. The steps above will ensure that he won't be able to go back, at least on that account. One of the things that I have had the hardest time doing is filling the time that I used to spend gaming with something else. Nothing seemed as fun as WOW when I first quit. But as I have gotten out and done things, life has become more interesting and fun. I agree that helping around the house is a good thing to keep him busy, but please make an effort to ensure he gets to do 'fun' things too. He may not show interest initially, but finding other things that interest him and are fun will go a long way towards helping him stay away from the games.
Good for you Jane. A The things you are seeing in Willy are pretty typical for gamers in withdrawal. A As I just posted to Willy, our son slept for HOURS and HOURS after he quit games. A This went on for several weeks. A In our house, the computer and the main internet connection and modem are locked up in our room when we are not home. A We can plug and unplug the connections to the rest of the house as we need to for daughter and foreign exchange student to use their computers for schoolwork. A GamerSon does his work at school or borrows my old laptop, closely supervised. A We do leave him home alone now, but I think he is past wanting to log back into WoW. A We still lock up the computers, just in case. A When he failed his first semester of JC, we took his computer away completely but gave it back when we gave him the RealFlight RC simulator program (he used to fly RC planes before WoW) A It sits in the family room, not connected to the internet, and has no keyboard. A He can fly his virtual RC planes, and now that the weather is good, he can go out and fly the real one. The reason that nothing seems to interest him is that the dopamine receptors in his brain have been flooded with dopamine and other neurotransmitters that are released in large quantities when he plays. A Over the course of weeks and months, the receptors gradually become desensitized and require more and more dopamine to acheive the same effect. A There are few things in real life that will release that much dopamine. A With time, his receptors will be re-sensitized to the levels seen in real life activities, and he will find enjoyment in everyday things again. A It just takes time. Keeping him busy helps. A My son used to read a lot years ago. A I made him renew his library card and start reading again, as he had lost his ability to concentrate on printed words on a page. A That seemed to help. A He has been mowing our lawn and he helped my husband and a neighbor dig a drainage system in the backyard. A He has a job at UPS that has really helped him build some muscles and brought back his appetite. A He has also made some friends there and at school. You may have to cut back temporarily on your other activities (thank goodness I had just decided to cut back to part time on my job before this all hit the fan at our house) but our kids are worth whatever it takes from us. A You may need to tell the volunteer places that you are having issues at home that you need to take care of right now and have them send you minutes of the meetings. A Not sure you're gonna be able to get him to go with you 4 times a week. A Have him go with you to work out. A That will be good. A Get his natural endorphins flowing. Good luck.
"Small service is true service while it lasts. Of humblest friends, bright creature! scorn not one
The daisy, by the shadow that it casts,
Protects the lingering dewdrop from the sun." -------William Wordsworth
Willy rode his bike with me for about 2 hours while I ran today, that was good.. it's beautiful out today and ordinarily he wouldn't have experienced two seconds of it. He slept very, very late (I let him) and did no schoolwork, again. He does know that he won't be permitted to be home without parental supervision for at least the next two weeks... we'll see how the probabilities for a relapse look at that point. He seems very excited about selling his account - I'm appalled that so many people will pay good money for something like this - but if it works for him, okay. Right now I let him watch a movie with his sisters, he can't sit and read the whole entire day and this is a nice break. If he makes it through Friday we have a special treat planned. We will go to a beautiful state park right on L.I. Sound for a run/walk along the beach, and afterwards to our favorite fish fry place. I tend to be a bit of a cheap-o and we hardly ever go out, so this should be fun. It's so nice to know... his sister's dance recital is tomorrow and he WILL be there, instead of lying and sneaking around and disappointing us so he can play WOW rather than going to an important family thing. He has missed so many of these in the past couple of years due to his compulsion to play and it is a blessing to think I might be getting my son back. I have another question... (I'm full of them)... has anyone else had siblings try to sabotage their child's recovery? Right now my other kids are super-jealous of Willy, that he hasn't had to do schoolwork and that I've been paying extra attention to him. The "normal" family teasing is getting a whole lot more blood-thirsty and my older daughter, for instance, was purposely doing a bunch of things this morning that she knew would make him testy and anxious. Any tips for how to deal with this? Jane in CT, mom to Willyhog
Yeah, very difficult for kids to understand this in a sibling. Try to explain to them what is happening to him. Be sure they know that he will eventually have to make up the work he is not doing now. How about informing them that if they can't respect what is happening to him and what the whole family is going to need to do to help him, you will cut them all off from the internet. After all, your job would be a whole lot easier if the internet was just plain not in your house. Just an FYI, it's quite likely that it will take him significantly longer than 2 weeks to get over this.
"Small service is true service while it lasts. Of humblest friends, bright creature! scorn not one
The daisy, by the shadow that it casts,
Protects the lingering dewdrop from the sun." -------William Wordsworth
Good that you got him to do other things with you and the sibs. The camp in Mass was called Camp Wildwood--in Gardner Mass. I think it might have been affiliated with Mass Audubon. In any case she had a great time there and they did all sorts of things (no computers at the time at that camp). There was a pond for swimming and sailing. They went on overnight hikes and I think there might have been some whitewater rafting. I remember it being more than scout camp which my other daughter went to on Cape Cod--also a great camp for sailing. As for the sibling problem...yes it is very much an issue here. Our older daughter is a young adult but I do think all of the attention that has been centered on her sister has been bothersome. At the same time, all of these issues emerged shortly after she returned (from college) to live with us. We still struggle to find appropriate ways to handle this. I have tried to more recently spend some time talking to her about her needs and her feelings. That seemed to have helped. She has been to one therapy session with the counselor my husband and I see and that has also helped. I would like her to go again if she wants and I'd like for all of us to go to a family session.
Thanks again for all the input on the sibling problem. They are such a competitive bunch here and seem to feel like they need to fight for every scrap of attention or affection. It doesn't help that my husband is 100% absent during the week... he has a horrible commute and leaves the house at 7:30 a.m. and doesn't return until 9:30 p.m. So there really isn't anybody else to pay attention to them, except whatever coaches or teachers they may encounter at their different activities. Last night Willy played a little bit with his sisters and I was struck, again, by how absent he has essentially become from our family. I guess at the time it was happening, I sorta figured, okay, well, as kids become teenagers they DO withdraw a little bit, so it seemed normal, but having him actually be around was such a change, it was startling. He was supposed to go on a raid in WoW last night and later on he was literally laying in bed, keening because he couldn't be there. We were more or less back to, "I like it and it's the only thing I do like so why can't I play???" mode. I can see that this is going to be a long, long process. (I had hoped that it would take two weeks to be able to trust him with the computer but you are right, it's probably going to be longer than that. He leaves for Scout camp on 6/25 and we need to hold on at least until then.) I also really like the idea of telling the other kids that if they do sabotage Willy and his efforts, everybody is going to lose the computer. My daughters are obsessed with WebKinz and I'm starting to think that's a "gateway drug"... funny how I'm getting such a different perspective on this stuff now... On to day 3 Wow-free... blessings to you all... Jane in CT, mom to willyhog
Hang in there Jane. The camp will be great for him and it's not that far off.
"Small service is true service while it lasts. Of humblest friends, bright creature! scorn not one
The daisy, by the shadow that it casts,
Protects the lingering dewdrop from the sun." -------William Wordsworth
I think it is because we expect teens to withdraw a bit that we don't notice how much they have at first. He has to rediscover the things he used to like. I still keep talking to my daughter about finding balance and her counselor does the same. She may not be in the game anymore but she can still get engrossed in a single activity--now it's deviant art. Still last night she was hanging out with a friend watching some stuff on the computer (maybe anime). Yes, it is startling when they get back into the family--doing family things. But it is nice too, if the inappropriate behaviors don't emerge. I must say I'm looking forward to some peace this summer when my daughter goes to her pre-college program. It's been a hellish year and a half! Tread carefully with the sibs--the last thing you want is for them to "blame" your son for the loss of the computer access for them. So you might figure out a way to reward their cooperation (maybe not involving the computer/internet). Sounds like time for a family meeting--especially if your husband acknowledges there is a problem that needs to be addressed. Hang in there.
Yes, entirely coincidentally, my husband has been away even more this week than usual... I literally only see him in the morning when he wakes up (he's been coming in between midnight and 1 a.m. due to a work crisis) and the kids haven't seen him at all. I've been trying to keep him posted on the situation and this weekend, when hopefully he'll be home during the daylight hours, he and I and Willy are going to sit down and review where we are and figure out where to go from here. He is continuing to cry and moan about wanting to go online - okay now he's always been a big one for making a racket - but I've noticed that, for instance, today when I told him he had to come to the dance recital, he didn't protest at all. He's excited because he and his sister get to pick out some flowers for the dancing sister ...iit's sure been a while since I've seen him give a hoot about anybody else. It also turns out that actually completing deleting this ding-dang thing is fiendishly hard. Willy held on to all kinds of "patch" files where he could re-create the game from them... we did a search for "wow" using the windows search function (you know, the one with the little puppy dog) and, *after the game files were deleted and the account was closed* it turned up over 100 files anyway! Willy has gradually been coming clean about what he's left on the computer (he calls them "back doors") with regard to WoW but the extent to which it infiltrated his life and our computer is astounding! I know though that, even if we wipe absolutely everything related to WoW off our computer, it could still come back. He could figure out a way to retrieve it or his character or whatever because he's versed in this stuff and I'm not. And of course, we can't monitor him forever. This is why HE needs to lick this for himself, it can't just be an external thing imposed by us. Because then the first time he gets a free rein, he'll be right back out there. Based on you guys' advice, I am definitely planning on not permitting him any unsupervised computer time until at least when he leaves for camp on 6/25. On Saturday I am doing a wall climbing clinic (one of my volunteer jobs is to teach this skill to, and belay for, Girl Scouts) and I have offered to pay him to come with me and help out. He won't do the actual belaying, of course (you have to be certified to do that) but he can certainly come along and help lead some of the games and help me with the equipment. We will be outdoors all day and I think that will also be good for him - expensive for me but good for him! Thanks for listening guys, will check in again later, Jane
Jane, I am a parent, but I am the one who almost tore my house apart with the computer gaming. I have not played any game since 3/13/06. I just figured out yesterday that I don't have many escapes. I used to gamble (some) and play on line games for my escaping. I was also told that my game playing was masking my issues of not dealing with everday life. Not that I don't play, I get to work on my fears and strengths. Everday is a new opportunity for me to learn and move forward. I do great on the days that I honestly put the effort to move forward. Your son will learn how to grow again, once he figures out what he wants to grow towards. It seems your Love and effort will give him the ability to be strong. Thank you for letting me share. Jimi
Good idea to take him with you Jane. I think a great thing you have going is that HE knows he has a problem and is trying to do something about it. I know my daughter would protest or behave badly if I tried to get her to do something she did not want to do. That is because she did not and does not acknowledge that the game is a problem. You are absolutely right that they have to learn to self-regulate. Unfortunately it did not work for my daughter. We had been working with her counselor before she got into WoW and there were concerns about self regulating in other ways. It's hardest in the beginning. It will get better for all of you the longer he stays off.
My husband and I cannot take credit for the improvement in our son. We knew that his obsessive game-playing was affecting his future health, academic success, and relationships of all kinds. The two things we did finally manage to agree upon were 1) that the gaming had to stop completely and 2) we were powerless to stop him at home. We did the only thing we knew to do; as I've told my son, his school has managed to succeed in ways that we failed. I do know one thing; playing that game was not benefiting anyone. There are healthier forms of entertainment. He told us today that the director of the school, in conjunction with the graduating Seniors, had surprised the remainder of the school with a sort of carnival/field day. They swam in the pool, had several huge bounce houses, water balloons, had an egg toss, etc. A year ago he'd have refused to participate in that type of activity because it was 'hokey'. Now it was the highlight of his week. There was a post today on wowdetox.com that I'll post below. It is one which echoes what I've seen time and time again...after a period of time, kids think they can handle moderation. But in more cases than not, it eventually gets the upper hand and the moderation ends. Addiction never ends. ----------------------------------------- i promise all you guys who are reading this:
if she lets me back on, i wont let it take over my life, and ill still have fun w/ other things!!!
I saw that post, too.... the poster seems to be pretty mature and self-aware for an 11 year old... except that it was interesting how he noted all the signs of compulsive behavior (being "crushed" when the game was taken away, sneaking and going around his mom's wishes to play) yet still figured he'd be able to control it if he got it back. I think this is where Willy is now: he realizes he has an issue with WoW, he realizes that he behaved in all kinds of unsavory ways around the game, but he still figures he could game "a little bit." As a former smoker, I eventually had to come to the realization that I couldn't even have one cigarette... similarly, Willy can't play just one minute of WoW, but he can't see that right now. He keeps thinking that he could keep it to a half hour or an hour a day, and life would be beautiful. Except the game itself is structured in such a way as to make that impossible. From the reading and research I've done, the higher up you go, the more time-consuming and challenging WoW becomes, not less. The instances or raids become more frequent and longer, and the time needed to make incremental performance improvements increases, not decreases. It isn't *just* the case that the person wants and needs to play more (although that's certainly true also), but that the game itself requires an ever-increasing time investment. The analogy to the slot machine would be, the more money you pump into it, the more emotionally attached you become to chasing a payout and to some extent "recovering" your investment. It's clear to me that WoW can pretty easily become a monkey on someone's back - there seems to be this constant feeling of obligation to get back to the game, to not let your guildmates down, to go forward rather than stay in one place. And it's scary that it's endless. Willy is, however, continuing to "just not game." I think he's awfully bored, and very often that boredom translates into tormenting his sisters, but at this point I'd rather have the shrieking and the yelling than the keyboard clicking. They went to see a movie yesterday, in part as a reward for 6 days game-free, and at least the early part of this week will be full of "end of the school year" type activities. And of course he leaves for camp in less than 2 weeks now and to be honest, it will be nice to have a break from focussing on this so much. I continue to be grateful to all of your for your advice and support. Jane in CT, mom to Willyhog
It is a quite strange mechanism... When you decide to quit, you are completely aware of the horrors that the game is causing you. You tell yourself "Never again!" and delete the game with a promise never to sink that deep again. Then, after some days, you suddenly start to have conversations with yourself: "Was it really that bad?", Am I overreacting?" and "A couple of hours play every week wouldnt hurt me." Before you know it, you have talked yourself into trying it one more time. "I think I can control it now". Even though, deep inside, you know you cant. I know this mechanism very well because I tried to quit 3 times and had a relapse every time. Every time I told myself to control it better, reduce my gaming time etc. Every time I ended up at point zero, telling myself "Never again! ... again. Why it is like that? I dont know, but I think that your mind is so used to the stimulation of the game that your subconsciousnes will go to extremes to get it back. If it wasnt becaue of this site and the people here, I would have reinstalled the game by now, even though I know how much it destroys. Even though my exams are coming up this month and my precious game installed would (probably) have a very negative impact on my studying ... Even though I am very focused on staying clean, I still get sudden moments of actually considering to install the game again, and this is the 4. time I quit. I know I cant control it. I know it is very destructive. I want to stay away, but I still get those thoughts. Its crazy! I dont know if you can use my experience, but I just wanted to explain how it is for a gamer. I dont want to give him excuses, I just thought that maybe it is good to know that he is not the only one to get these "second thoughts".
As part of the competitive sibling thing, we have noted that the "more in trouble" son is (almost 100% related to gaming behaviors (not getting chore done due to being on game etc) ) then the better behaved little sis is. Also we have made a point to privately to her give her verbal kudos for her help with understanding, helping as dealing with son's issues. Son also knows that modem has been plugged back in for sisters late night homework, etc. "because she can handle it". While it is hard (particularly with just 2 I think) to avoid them getting compared to each other, we do try to point out that laudable behavior is rewarded, and negatives are not. Son is cut some slack re excusing some of sulking etc as "withdrawal" when he goes without his game, but he still has to fulfill obligations. (maybe more so since his time off is not voluntary,,(boy do I wish!!!)) Keep him busy, busy, busy!!! (is there a big project that would not be seen as a" reward" so much by sibs but would be" rewarding" for him? (re-landscape the entire yard for pay would come to my mind here?) Even better if he is doing something like this for someone out side of the household, who you can trust with the knowledge of possible withdrawal symptoms, keeping away from the computer etc? Elderly church member who needs housepainting for instance. (Hey want to ship him to me? I definitely have lots of "projects"? Maybe we could start a teen anti- game watch exchange program! ;D okay , not likely feasible, but I'd love to get my jungle whacked, and I guess having a break from the stress of son's addiction is enticing. :P) Challenge him to help think up something, but know that part of the "withdrawal" definitely seems to be an inability to see very far away from gaming. (little hippies list of things to do was very educational to see how it expanded as he got further away!)
"a mind is a terrible thing to waste"
Well, Willy was 100% off the computer yesterday (Saturday). We took a day trip to NYC, which was long and very intense, and he didn't play before he left or when he returned. He is still sorta cranky... and tends to withdraw into reading his book rather than interacting... but I also have to focus on the fact that, two months ago, he would have refused point-blank to go at all. However there is one piece of bad news. Okay, two. First, he has repeatedly been trying to download Empire Earth. I stop the download every morning but one of these days he's going to succeed. Second, and this is even more troubling, I received an email yesterday from eBay about "my" bid on a character from WoW. It was a bid - for a different character than Willy's - and for some reason eBay had terminated the auction and they wanted to let us know about it. Willy came up with some fast double-talk about how he had wanted to watch the auction and had to bid on it to watch it. I didn't challenge that (we were in public at the time) but I'm 99.9% sure that was a lie. I assume that what he was thinking about doing was to use the money in the PayPal account to re-enter WoW at the same level where he left it. Geez, here he has been two weeks free and I thought maybe was over the worst of it, but no. He is still scheming, still being dishonest, still plotting for how to return to this pastime. I have tried, boy have I tried, to make non-WoW life fun and interesting and worthwhile, but it seems that, no matter what I do, it will never measure up. Jane in CT, mom to Willyhog
Yes, now you're seeing some of the behaviors we've all seen before. No, you do not have to bid on an ebay auction to watch it. I watch auctions all the time when I want to know what something is worth. I have never bid on ebay. Can you put the computer/internet connection/router, etc somewhere where it can be disabled or locked up at night and when you are not home? We have internet connections in several rooms of our house but the main connection is in our bedroom and we can unplug various connections when we don't want them used. Our bedroom has a lock on the door. This is all pretty typical. Stay on top of it. It's exhausting I know.
"Small service is true service while it lasts. Of humblest friends, bright creature! scorn not one
The daisy, by the shadow that it casts,
Protects the lingering dewdrop from the sun." -------William Wordsworth
I concur, it's exhausting. Gamersmom has the right idea though, take control of the router. Of course, when I did that, that's when my daughter went ballistic. But it probably was the best thing I did.
I think our first big mistake was allowing the computer into the bedroom.A The very first thing we did at the beginning of our struggle was to move it into a common area on the first floor of the house...his bedroom was upstairs.A If he's got a laptop, you can take possession of it when you can't supervise and/or don't want him using it. Taking away the internet adapter and/or blocking its use via the router is a good option.A It's a real challenge to keep a kid off if he's interested.A As long as a kid has access to the internet he can converse with his gaming friends (IM, etc.).A They all put their heads together and will do anything to help a person circumvent their parents, particularly if they want him to be playing with them.A We seemed to have short-lived success when we blocked all WoW related URLS from our router. Dishonesty is one of the greatest commonalities with gamers.A I loved the post about game tactics bleeding over into real life.A They learn to be cunning when they play; often, in-game rewards come from dishonesty.A I am so, so glad that you've recognized this at such a young age and during a summer break!A It will be a long battle but you've still got the upper hand and plenty of time to put things back in line.A Good luck because this is a long, painful process.A We didn't see any real change in behavior until 4+ months game-free and our son was receiving daily therapy on top of that.
Thanks again to all of you for your understanding and support. One step forward, two steps back... This weekend was, I thought, a little better in terms of straight-on computer time. We were super-busy both days, and I know just in terms of absolute amounts of screen time, there was very, very little for Willy. One question, is Empire Earth an MMORPG? The dishonesty problem persists. I am just mortified and furious that Willy would consider buying a character to get back into the game, that just appalls me. After all that... and then just to go back. I mean I guess I can understand it, I had quit smoking and took up distance running and the whole bit, and then in a moment of stress "picked up" cigarettes again and all that training and willpower went out the window... but it still makes me so upset and discouraged. Willy leaves for two weeks of camp next Sunday. We are going to enforce "zero tolerance" for computer time and "zero tolerance" for being home without an adult until then. It's going to be a challenge but I can see from the other parents here, it's going to have to happen. He keeps saying, "I already earned back your trust," but the fact is, he really didn't. Especially not with this eBay business. It is funny, over the weekend I connected the dots and realized why I have been falling into bed every night at 9:30... this is exhausting! Thank goodness my husband is on the same page with me and has also helped enforce the "no computer time" mandate - but now he goes back to work today so I am on my own again. Wish me luck and strength for the coming week everybody, and thanks again for your support! Jane in CT, mom to Willyhog
Details on Empire Earth can be found on many Web pages.A One good one is at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empire_Earth.A As you can see from the description of the game on the right hand side, below the graphic of the Roman on the horse, it says that the modes are Single Player and Multiplayer.A As for the Multiplayer mode, about half way down the page, just before the "Campaign" section, it says the following:
It is somewhat different from the typical MMORPG as the purpose is not primarily to go on raids to kill monsters.A Also, it has elements that are similar to the various SIMS games, such as the "The Sims" (a strategic life simulation game which is published by Electronic Arts but is developed by Maxis) that started that whole genre of games.A Empire Earth has some historical and other educational value.A Nonetheless, I suspect that it has enough elements in common with the MMORPGs that willyhog will have similar problems with it as well.A Although I have played the original Sims game quite a few years ago, I have never played Empire Earth, nor any MMORPG, so my opinion is not based on direct experience.
- John O.
[em]Carpe Diem![/em] (Seize the Day!)
Suggestion: have the paypal account cut you/ him a check (get it off of on line) Have him put 1/2 of money into old fashioned bank account and other 1/2 (or what ever part) buy something for a non- on line hobby. (a chemistry set, a judo or art lesson, fencing gear, a chainsaw ;D, whatever!) But get it farther away from temptation!
"a mind is a terrible thing to waste"
In response, Empire Earth is an RTS (Real-tiime Strategy) game, and if you are looking for a game that has absolutely no multiplayer options, you will be extremely hard pressed to find one. However, I am ashamed that I bid on a character. :'( However, it was my every expectation that I would not win the bid (it was at a penny), and sure enough, 30 seconds after I bid on it, someone else raced in and topped it. I did not bid on it again after that, and my intentions were (mostly) sterling, in that I wanted to buy it and redo the decoration to make it more attractive so I could resell it. Buying something at 1c then reselling it for over 200 dollars?? That was mostly why I bid on it, though i did have a part of me that praised me for the "action" I was taking to get WoW, even if it meant owning just a bare account, back. I won't do such a thing again, as I know it is bad for me to feel that I am doing anything associated with WoW. Lesson learned. /punchtarget :'(
Don't feel like the lone ranger, Will. Lost of people have trouble breaking that "All-or-nothing" gaming mentality. One of my prblems with not playing, was I didn;t know what to do on Friday and Saturday nights anymore. I looked forward to raiding on those nights, ALL WEEK. Work at it, little by little. Minute by minute. The Grand Canyon (USA, Arizona/Nevada) wasn't done 80 tons at a time. It was carved out grain by grain.
My Gamer Bio
"The eye sees only what the mind is prepared to comprehend" -Henri Bergson
Just thought I would post a quick update on Willyhog... I picked him up at Boy Scout camp today and he looked tan (well, pink), happy, and tired. He was GREAT all the way home in the car, not crabby or bored or evil. His brother tried baiting him a couple of times and I could tell Willy could see it for what it was, and he rose above it. So far he's been home for 4 hours and hasn't even peeked at the computer yet. I cannot TELL you what it would have been like last year... he would have homed in on the box, sat down, and not gotten up for 12 hours straight. "How was camp, Willy?" "Mmmmmph, I have to do this now Mom." "Want a nice homecooked meal to say welcome home?" "Only if I can eat it at the computer Mom!" Right now they are preparing our poor bunny's grave site. He is pretty broken hearted about it, as are we all. He did find out about it while he was at camp, am still not sure if that was a good thing or a bad thing. But at least it was a REAL thing. Post more later guys, love, Jane in CT, mom to Willyhog
Yea for progress! It is always so nice to have your kids back!! whether from camp etc, or from their gaming exile. A note of caution: my son (who at this point has no intention of stopping his gaming, so it's a different scenario to a good degree) would be fine with being off the game for a while after a trip away etc. But then the contrast betwee en being so busy, so much scheduled activities and "boring old home" would set in after about 2-3 days and he would be pulled toward the game. Plan a very busy day with him (and sibs) in about 2 days and for about 2-3 days if you can to help ward that off. (can include just errands, chores ) I would include some activities that will continue such as hobby, summer reading etc. Next week maybe hard. Hope not, but preplanning might help.
"a mind is a terrible thing to waste"
Excellent advice and not anything I would have thought of. Thank you so very much for posting it. Willy actually returns to camp tomorrow. (Long story, he goes over the summer with two different Boy Scout troops, one of them his and one of them his former troop.) But when he's home the week after next I will totally do what you suggest. Hugs, Jane in CT, mom to Willyhog
That's great news. Keeping busy with outdoor activities and physical activity seems to work well.
Hallo Willyhog, Nice to hear that you are still fighting! Be careful with the RTS thing btw. Im an RTS addict so I know what Im talking about ... even though it might not look as time consuming as WoW, it can quickly become that (most RTS game have clans, tournaments, levelling up etc). gsingjane, I can imagine you had a hard time, but all in all, it sounds a lot better now than when I first heard from you and Willy. ;) Remember the progress! I wish you both a nice summer and good luck with finding a nice hobby for willy... would be a great idea, I think.
Could I ask, what does RTS stand for? I am just still way down on the learning curve! Willyhog is still @ camp - he came home for a quick overnight and then went back until next Saturday. He is home here until we leave on a family trip about 10 days later. That is going to be the challenge! I planned to have that week be mostly cleaning and home repair, stuff that's desperately needed around here, and had really hoped that Willy would help out. It's going to be hard to keep him off the screen tho... that is the week I may have my husband just disable the computer altogether so nobody can use it at all. I don't have a lot going on so it won't be incredibly critical to keep up with emails, etc. (I will let people here know if we disappear, though!). Willy did game, the first-person shooter game (GTA) during the Sunday morning before he went back to camp. All the same excuses applied: I'm going away for a week without computer, what do you want? And... I can't sit and read the whole time! And so on and so forth. This is why I think the people who vote for zero tolerance are right. Will keep you all posted and thanks as always for the great support, Jane in CT, mom to Willyhog
RTS = real-time strategy. Common examples include Starcraft, Warcraft (not World Of), etc.
RTS games mostly involves you building a town and creating an army, subsequently fighting against another one or more persons with towns and armies as well. Often you will have some win/loss count which is comparable to levels in MMORPG's. If you have a lots of wins and very few losses, you are very cool (in the game world). The higher your "win count" the stronger players you will meet and so on ... Most RTS games have chat functions and groups (like guilds or clans) where players are training together. The problem is that you will gain the same sense of "success" in the game and you are rewarded for spending time with it. If you get serious about it, you will need to play a lot ... I tend to get "serious about it" when I play those games, even though I excuse myself by saying that I merely play "for fun" ... suddenly I cant go to that party because there is an important match or some training with my clan etc. Just my experience, it might be different for others ... I guess I vote for zero tolerance, especially in cases of doubt.
Thanks guys. Been meaning to ask that question myself. I learn so much here.
"Small service is true service while it lasts. Of humblest friends, bright creature! scorn not one
The daisy, by the shadow that it casts,
Protects the lingering dewdrop from the sun." -------William Wordsworth
For whatever it's worth...the last time we saw our son he said he would have to stay away from all online games.A He is able to play on Game Cube, X-Box, etc. where there is no interaction online and there is an end to the game.
I definately need to stay away from all online games as well. Even though I was/am specifically addicted to a certain RTS game, Im quite sure most online games would fulfil my "needs" ... as for console games, I dont know if I would be ready for such challenge at the moment. Maybe I will be in the future. (right now I am more interested in doing completely other things) Im glad your son is able to manage that though, it is great if he can have fun playing without going into his addiction pattern. :)
Actually, I don't think he is able to self-regulate on anything having to do with the computer, except maybe internet searching (and posting here). It seems like every time he sits down there is this magnetic draw to stay on, now it doesn't seem to be quite as powerful as with WoW, but in many ways it "feels" just the same. It's hard to know: I mean as a parent, you are always having to stop the fun, to make people cease doing the things they want to do and do the things they have to do, and I hardly think it's a sign of addiction that Willy doesn't want to stop playing the computer in order to clean his room! But... he definitely seems to exhibit the same signs, the wanting to play for hours, the bad behavior when asked to stop, and of course the utter waste of time involved is exactly the same. Yes, the more I "discuss" it here, the more I feel like we're all going to have to go computer-less next week when Willy is home and at loose ends. Thanks for all your help and wise comments! Jane in CT, mom to Willyhog
Just a suggestion: Maybe send the computer to a shop for 'maintenance' and that way there will be less of a fight. You can tell them to take thier time =) Kathy
Wow, that sounds a lot like me. I'm not sure if this is an option but when my parents took my games away (2 days ago) they also told me they would send me to a boarding school if my grades did not pick up. On top of that they gave me a chat about how my grades actually count now that I'm in ninth grade and how I am potentially ruining my future. I think my fear of going to boarding school overwhelmed me. My concerns about my game took a back seat. I can't say my urges for gaming have stoped, but they have been partially blocked by my fear of going to boarding school. What I'm trying to say is maybe there is something your son is more afraid of than loosing video games, and that on top of loosing his games he could loose something else very dear to him. Goodluck with your son, and be strong (my parents were and now I'm currently game-freeA ;) )
Just keep in mind, that the stronger aperson is addiceted, the stronger will be the reaction, if his drug - the game - is taken away from him by force. I just referr to incidents, where such a person took the step to kill himself or hurt other people, because of the confused and poisoned mind.
So it really depends on the addicted person himself and no general action can be adviced.
BoB
Don't fool yourself with the 'What if' phrase!