Let me first say that I first came to this site years ago when my then 20 yeard old son was having a gaming problem. He is now 28 and still has a problem. This site helped me to understand what I was dealing with and it was comforting to know that it is a real problem and that there are other parents going through what I go through. And I am still going through it.
More recently I have visited to find guidance in what to do about my now 22, twin sons. The current situation is that they both went away to college (different schools) and after many disappointing semesters and broken promises are now home. They did manage to complete their 2 year degrees, in part because they had so many credits going in from high school.
We told them we expected them to get a job, sign up for school and otherwise conduct their lives like adults (helping around the house and eventually paying rent). They both got jobs. One son, Jay, has signed up for one class at school and is doing very well in that. He's disasstified with his job, claims he's looking for a better one, but still keeps plugging away at the job he has. The other, Don, just recently got laid off from his job, has not signed up for school and claims he's looking for a job.
The first thing they each did with their hard earned money was...buy a computer system. They ordered the parts online, "sneaked" them up to their rooms and assembled the system.
After a week of no job seeking activity and Don spending ALL his time up in his room, I came to Olganon. My husband and I did MORE talking and thinking and finally made the decision to go game free. You know how the story goes, You tell them it's a problem, that youre going to take away the internet, they seem to be interactive for a while, then it's back to same old same old. So this time we actually did it.
This of course prompted all kinds of reactions. Don has moved out and is planning on paying for his place with the savings he has and working for his girlfried's family until he "finds a better job".
Jay has taken the negotiating approach. He doesn't understand why we're "punishing" him. He doesn't have a gaming problem. He only plays because he's bored, has no friends and has nothing better to do. It's no different than when we (his parents) watch TV 3 hours everynight...etc etc
We just finished a lengthy conversation. Basically, he says that by us taking away his ability to play, he is going to have to choose to move out. I explained that that is not his only choice.
I do believe these guys have a problem. It's hard to pin point it with them because it's always a chicken and the egg story. In my view, they are bored and have no friends because they game. They of course think they have no friends and are bored so they game.
I can elaborate more about my experiences with my 28 year old who is still gaming and has been kicked out of 3 colleges, has 5 classes left to complete a bachelors in math, and still has gaming as his priority, but that would take a while. My concern is that I see Jay and Don going the same way. I see the same behavior, the same priorities and the same excuses. They dont like to be compared to their older brother. I've tried to explain that I am not as much comparing as I am using his behavior and outcomes as a reference, along with all the stories I read in this forum.
We explained to Jay tonight we cannot be part of that destruction. He may or may not agree that it's a real problem, but the bottom line is that we don't want to contribute in any way. We just can't go through it again.
I was trying to explain to Jay about the difference between gaming and watching TV. I did get him to agree to read some articles about it. I am always sending them links about studies etc, but they of course roll their eyes and never read them, because I'm crazy mom, who is from a different generation and would never understand. So can anyone out there recommend something for him to read. If you had ONE shot at your son reading something that may make a difference, what would that be?
Also, Jay IS going to a counselor. I asked him what the counselor had said about all this. He said she said that he should explain to us that by us taking his internet gaming away, we were forcing him to choose other priorities, which up to this point, according to him, were school and working. So, because we took the internet game away, now he will have to shift his priority to moving. I told him it was his choice, but its a choice and taking the internet game away most certainly does not equate to him having to move out. I think there is something missing in the translation of what the counselor actually told him. I don't know if this counselor is up on game addiction, so I'd like to find something scientific that I can share with the counselor in a language that the counselor can relate to. Any suggestions?
To Jay's credit, he did answer all the questions to determine if you are an excessive gamer. He doesn't think he fits the profile. I went through his answers and while he didn't qualify under some questions, some he did not answer truthfully and some he interpreted to his advantage, so I think he may not be an excessive gamer but he still games to the point that other things suffer. Take for instance, by the time we were sitting down to have this discussion, he had already found out that he cannot play where his brother's living because there is not enough bandwidth to support two people playing, his brother wont pay for the extra bandwidth and he offered to pay. Sounds pretty desperate to me.
I'd like to educate him about the brain changes that occur and how long it takes to reverse that once you're game free. After you go through that time period , is it safe to play in moderation?
Needless to say, I feel like there is something I could have done to prevent my 3 sons from falling into this pit. I know I'm not supposed to blame myself, but how can I not. This is not what I imagined their life would be like. I educate all that will listen on this. Unfortumately, there is no serious consideration being given to this problem in our society. It is so frustrating.
Hi Chuggermom
Welcome back to Olg-anon
Much of what you say rings true with me; about how they manipulate you by saying you don't understand the modern ways and they don't understand why you are "punishing" them.
It sounds to me like they are at least starting to entertain the possibility of gaming spoiling their lives, but whether they are willing to make a change is something else. It's great if they will consider reading stuff that you give them. My son would not as he is hates interference from me. At the moment it's game free and restricted internet and smart phone use in our house.
At the moment I am reading " co-dependancy no more" by Melody Beattie, to understand my own part in trying to control my son while he is at home with us. The basic message is control is futile; let go and live your life. That does not exclude you giving loving support to the addict, but the idea is to stop you needing to control stuff over which you cannot control. The idea that we, as potential co-dependants, should start to look after ourselves. ALthough the book is more relevant to a Spouse co-dependancy situation, there are still things for me to learn. Apparently co-dependant reactions can exacerbate addiction in some situations so I don't want to do that if I can help it.
One thing I know is that you did not cause their addiction, so please don't beat yourself up about that. Your sons are lucky to have such caring parents
On the forum, i read that an addict decided to make a change after they had read the effect that gaming has on the hurting people around them (the 'anons'), from a post by a spouse or mother affected, which they had not thought about before. I would suggest that you could search though some of people's experiences online (bith gamers and anons) and print out the ones that might have significance to your sons.
If they chose to leave home, I would see that as a kind of positve step that they want to take control of their lives and grow up a little, if they go into a situation where they need to stand on their own two feet. You might want to consider talking to any potential 'enablers' in your family about your concerns, so they know how to resist enabling them and they take this compulsion seriously.
Hugs xx
INFO
Help for gamers here
Help for parents of gamers here
Help for spouses/SO's of gamers here
Parent's online meeting THURSDAY 9pmEST/EDT click here
Online meetings gaming addicts click here
Please help! Donate here
Maybe send your son here, to OLGA, to read the stories of people struggling with gaming. Maybe you could pick out some that resonate for you.
Welcome to OLGA chuggermom! I am really sorry to hear that you have to fight this monster in not one but three fronts!! I am having a hard time with only one gaming son and I am not even going to pretend that I understand how it must be with 3 gaming sons.
First of all, let me repeat 3Cs, you didn't cause it, you can't control it and you can't cure it. So there is no point in blaming yourself and it doesn't help anyone anyway.
Secondly, let me try to answer your questions.. When I was desperately trying to convince my son about gaming addiction and the adverse affects, first I read books, articles and forum posts as much as I can and I watched you tube videos recommended here. I wanted to know what I was dealing with. As I was reading books and watching videos, I took short notes about the damage it is doing to the person, the facts, the sypmtoms etc under various categories and put them in a folder. I purchased the books recommended here and read them all. I was convinced that my son was addicted to gaming and I was terrified to learn that if he continued playing the way he was, he might have never fully recovered from the adverse affects. So I had to do something very soon. The recovering gamers were emphasizing the importance of the gamers' willingness to quit rather than forcing it upon them. I had no hope of convincing my son because in the past we had talked about it and he always laughted at me and said I was delusional to even think that gaming was addictive. But I decided to read the notes which I took to my son at every opportunity (just one or two points a day). Also I started leaving the books I purchased lying around hoping he might just pick one up. To my surprise he listened to the short notes I read to him without a comment and he started reading Dr Andrew Doan's book ,"Hooked on Games". I also send him a few emails about this site and especially a few posts written by recovering gamers and left it there. During one of the conversations, it became clear that he actually read my emails and visited the site more than one occasion. He immediately figured out my OLGA name and started making comments indicating that he read what I wrote as well as some recoveing gamers' posts.
Everything must have had an affect on him. But I believe especially Dr Doan's book was the reason why he finally accepted he was addicted to Leagues of Legends. But even than if we didn't cut the internet off (gradually) he wasn't going to stop playing. After very difficult 5-6 weeks, he finally decided to sell his gaming laptop and his game account and decided to never play that game again (the time will tell!!)
Your second question was about scientific data.. Dr Doan has many youtube videos which explains the adverse affects of gaming on brains (similar to drugs and gambling). By typing "Real Battle Ministries" at google, you should be able to reach the web site where you can find all these videos. He may even reply to your post and give you the relevant links. Also Dr Gabor Mate has similar very informative videos.
Unfortunately not all therapists agree with gaming addiction. I hope the one your son goes to believes in it. It is worth researching and finding a good one who believes in gaming addiction.
And your last question is about moderation.. From the books I read and the videos I watched, it seems that the brain requires 6 months to recover from the adverse affects of gaming. But it by no means suggests that the gamer can return to gaming safely afterwards. Every recovering gamer in this site agrees that if the person is addicted to gaming, they can not moderate their playing. Addiction by definition is loss of control in playing time. On the other hand if the person is not addicted but an excessive gamer, after having a break they may be able to return moderate playing. But as far asI understand it is very difficult to distinguish between the two. Only after trying to moderate and fail, gamers usually understand that they are addicted after all.
Good luck with your attempts to convince your twins to the detrimental affects of gaming. Please feel free to join our chat meeting on Thursday nights at 9pm EST.
We can relate a lot of the things you mentioned. It is NOT an easy journey for us mothers but we can only keep trying. Hugs!
"The brightest future will always be based on a forgotten past. You can't go on well in life until you let go of your past failures and heartaches." "The first step toward change is acceptance." "Once you accept yourself, you open the door to change. That's all you have to do." "Change is not something you do, it's something you allow."- Will Garcia
May Light, thank you for your kind words.
Chuggermon, your situation is becoming more common. Through Celebrate Recovery (Christ-centered 12-Step Program at my church), I have worked with several young men similar to your sons as I lead face-to-face meetings at my church.
I am also a former gaming addict, as well as dealing with a gaming addict in my home.
These are videos that I encourage you to watch with your sons and discuss with them.
There are game images in the videos so this is the warning for those on OLGA who are in recovery.
Kids' Brains, Video Games, & Brain Development Talk at Coronado SAFE (Student And Family Enrichment) - 20 minutes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4OI6VdvwIk
Doped on Media: Gaming Addiction as a Poorly Recognized Medical Problem in Our Wounded Warriors - 50 minutes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cu1TBzTXldo
Boredom is healthy, allows brain to rest, and encourages creativity! - 2 minutes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDcaQN1g2o8
Conflict Helps People Grow & Practice Is Needed for Mastery - 2 minutes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7lRNVxSA-8
As a family, we canceled cable TV and drastically cut back on TV time. Yes, TV is different than gaming as it will only immerse the individual where as gaming will immerse, provide achieivement, and social interactions. Based on Nick Yee, PhD's research out of Stanford, immersion, achievement and social interactions are the three reasons why gaming is sooooo addictive. However, TV will also "numb" the mind and prevent people to grow.
Because you are walking with your son(s) in recovery, I encourage the family to cancel cable, disconnect, and grow together. Face this conflict together. We did as a family and our family is healing together!
Andrew P. Doan, MPH, MD, PhD
My Gaming Addiction Videos on YouTube: YouTube.com/@DrAndrewDoan
*The views expressed are of the author's and do not necessarily reflect the official policy of the U.S. Navy, DHA or Department of Defense.
Thanks to everyone for the kind words and suggestions. I am going to watch the videos and will pick one to watch with my son jay. I don't think I can teach don at this point because he has moved out, but jay is his twin so i feel that if I can get him to question and consider his will have a greater influence on his twin than I could. I think a video will be the most effective given this generations propensity for media. If all goes well we can discuss and I can follow up with the other suggestions here over the next few days.
I also plan to get the book suggested here so I can gauge whether it'll be advantageous to the counselor, who I volunteered to go see with jay in two weeks
thanks all
Chuggermom,
Welcome back to Olganon and I, too, am so sorry that you are living through this nightmare again with your twin sons. I agree with all that has been shared already. I want to add a welcome to join us tonight (Thurs.) for the parent meeting at 9pm EST. Just enter the chat room and you will be invited in.
Listening to your sons' perceptions and interpretations resonated with me as it all sounds so familiar. My son's responses to the questions were not based in reality but merely reflected his intense denial. He used the same excuses of gaming (i.e. because he was bored, etc.) His rational was twisted...his thinking was concrete with gaps missing...and our family relationships became "gaming strategy." So, my heart goes out to you. You are not alone and we understand the nightmare of a rollercoaster that this addicition brings to families.
I also recommend Kevin Roberts' book, "Cyber Junkie" in addition to Andrew Doan's book for you, your sons and for professionals involved in understanding this insidious addicition. Hopefully something in these books, in the nightly meetings or in the posts might strike a chord with your sons.
Glad you are here.
"Legends say that hummingbirds float free of time, carrying our hopes for love, joy and celebration. The hummingbird's delicate grace reminds us that life is rich, beauty is everywhere, every personal connection has meaning and that laughter is life's sweetest creation." taken from Papyrus, Corp.
Let me preface this by saying that I am a gaming addict, here to provide a perhaps-different outlook on things.
Excellent! This is definitely the right decision. You don't have to tolerate gaming in your house.
For your sanity, I'm going to advise you not to get bogged down by "negotiating". When I was playing, I could throw out innumerable excuses and complaints to justify my behaviour. It's just an attempt by the gamer to entrap you and wear you down. Explain why his reasoning is incorrect, by all means, but don't allow yourself to be dragged down into a co-dependent "negotiation".
If your son is not receptive to studies and Dr. Doan's material, then he is probably past the point of being helped by reading evidence. There's not a lot out there that is more convincing than all that's been provided above. Perhaps try to get him to read some stories posted by despairing gaming addicts on this site. If facts don't work, emotions might.
From these parts of your post, I'm strongly getting the sense that you're quite opposed to your sons moving out. They've finished school and are in the workforce, and it seems a little strange that they are still living with you when they have the means to support themselves. You've done a great job trying to educate them about their addiction, and I think that the only thing that's going to make them realize that there's a problem is when it starts becoming a problem for them. I think that the only way that this is going to happen is when they start facing the natural consequences of their actions, which isn't going to happen if they're guaranteed a roof over their head, the ability to game and three meals a day.
You can still provide just as much love and support for his growth as you did when he was living with you. You won't be able to lay down the law and demand that he quits gaming, but such strategies can never really "fix" an addiction. All they do is force the gamer into a waiting game until they can get away from you. It's an illusion of control - your son's addiction would be lying in wait. Unless he's willing to seek help for it himself, no amount of monitoring software and removing the internet is going to cure him. Remember (from the 3Cs) that you cannot cure him.
This is the very definition of an excessive gamer - playing to the detriment of other aspects of their life.
I am 100% sure that when your sons finally wake up from this nightmare, they will love and appreciate you all the more.
Thanks CynicLibrarian for your honest post!
I guess I should clarify that I am not opposed to my sons moving out, in fact we would encourage it. Having gone through this with my 28 year old son though, I'm not sure that moving out will buy them anything, but it's a chance for them to face reality. My son Keith, moved out when he was 20 and decided that he wanted to take a break from school while living it up at home. I told him then that as parents we were responsible for raising responsible adults. In my view he had two paths to achieve this. 1) go to school and thus "postpone" the adult world while earning a degree or 2) get a job, move out and start his adult life right away. He chose the latter. He has never stopped gaming. He got kicked out of two other schools after that. All his friends have moved on. It's painful for me to see him. He looks emaciated and pasty. This was not the happy healthy child I had for his first 14 years. I worry that he will be consumed physically to the point of permanent illness. This may sound extreme, but he does not look healthy. Just yesterday he called me and asked me what I thought about him having headaches. Apparently he does not have headaches when he works but has been getting them on his day off. He read this can happen when you don't get enough sleep for days ( he says he sleeps 6-7 hrs during workdays) and then get alot of sleep at once (he then sleeps 11 hours on his day off). I know it may be nothing but I worry.
Do you know anything about these symptoms? I told him that I would do some research, to which he responded that one could find anything on the internet to prove anyone's point, ie. it's not reliable.
So I am still waiting for Keith to wake up from his nightmare.
We entertain the other sons staying at home because when they came home from school they said they wanted to change their habits, ie dorm living and "hermit-izing". We thought, if they were willing, that we could encourage them to do that. Don got layed off a week before I took the modem away. I had enough because I didn't see him for that week and he didn't do anything to get another job. He was always planning to move out, and that was fine, but he moved out that week BECAUSE i took the modem away. To my knowledge he does not have a job. His GF's family have a business and own the property that he is living in. He probably has enough money to pay them rent for a couple of months, and he said the family was going to hire him until he found something better. I don't consider this "moving out", I think the GFs family, while trying to help, are only enabling him. Still, it is more responsibility than he cared to take at home, even after our repeated requests for him to help out at home, and he knew we were planning on charging him rent starting this summer, he will also have to take over his car insurance payments and phone payments. Incidentally, Jay tried to game at Dons place, but his bandwidth is not enough to support two players, Don doesn't want to pay extra and I think Jay offered to pay the difference. I don't know what happened there.
Jay is doing alright without the modem. I think he still has games on his computer that he can play but not on the internet, and there's always his phone. Since he has no wireless for his phone, I'm watching out for the data portion of the phone bill this month. We have seen him more around the house, I have personally seen him filling out applications on line and updating his resume. He is currently pursuing an internship opportunity out of town which would require moving out. His current job does not have steady hours. One week he may work 20 hours and the next 40. He hasn't wanted to move out because he doesn't have a predictable steady source of income that he can budget with. Before we took the modem away, I didn't see much action towards finding a different job. I have seen a change in the last few days. I think I can say that there is some change towards the positive.
I know there is no other way around this. I pray for patience to accept the things I can't change and wisdom to say the right things and make the right decisions to help my sons in any way.
This sounds just like my son. It is so sad to see it.
I'm really glad to hear that you are seeing positve things with your younger son.
INFO
Help for gamers here
Help for parents of gamers here
Help for spouses/SO's of gamers here
Parent's online meeting THURSDAY 9pmEST/EDT click here
Online meetings gaming addicts click here
Please help! Donate here