Children & MMORPG's - zero tolerance

Absolutely agree that it's reasonable, dark. Save them neurons!

The online role playing universe is dominated by adults, most of whom are normal people, but you can never tell who your minor child is playing with. I think your idea is a good one.

It's an interesting perspective coming from a country other than the USA. I'm curious...who was the expert providing the information and on based upon what research?

I'm a firm believer in moderation. The problem arises when an individual simply can't moderate and a substance or activity becomes abusive. I'm not sure that zero tolerance of gaming is the solution to adolescent abuse of games, any more than zero tolerance of alcohol in the home prevents alcohol use and abuse outside of the home. When asked, I've always taken the approach that when gaming (or any other activity, for that matter) occupies more than 2 hours/day or begins to negatively affect an individual's ability to give equal or greater attention to the other aspects of life, then it's time to pull the plug. I think teens tend to desire more almost anything forbidden.

Here in the USA the legal drinking age...for anything...is 21. I see that as a huge contributor to underage binge drinking. When kids here get their hands on alcohol, they make sure that they get themselves good and drunk, and as quickly as possible, before the opportunity is gone. I find it grossly contradictory that at the age of 18 our young men and women can buy cigarettes, gamble (in some states) vote, get married, buy a house, and die for their country but they can't drink a beer, even in their own homes, without being in violation of the law.

I don't think I know of any 18 year olds (and since my kids are in that age bracket, I know hundreds) who haven't had the opportunity to drink alcohol, either at home or elsewhere. IMHO, I'd rather have them drink at home. First, they can learn to moderate and the parentals can be responsible for supervising. It also takes away the "forbidden fruit" factor so binge drinking is less likely. Of course, my perspective comes from living in the only nation in the world where drinking is illegal until the age of 21.

And an aside...we've hosted exchange students from European countries. There, they were able to drink anything at 16. They all drank at home (wine and beer, at dinner or on special occasions) when they were 13+. Not one of them felt the need to binge drink and in fact, they rarely drank even when the opportunity presented itself. They're all successful soon-to-be college graduates and are now over the age of 21.

Which brings me back to the same old place. We just need to be aware of the dangers of addiction to gaming the same way we are to tobacco, alcohol, drugs, etc. What better place to monitor those things than in the home?

Are you telling me that there is a possibility the gaming has damaged my brain?

Is this reversible? Does it heal with removal of the substance? Holy crap, this has me scared.

Hi Wow,

The speaker was a psychologist who works at a major hospital here. When teenagers are brought in with alcohol induced coma (passed out) she is required to counsel them and their parents. The study she cited was by a reputable scientist (dont have the name to hand at the moment) who had been researching since 1998. The question it answered (and bear in mind not all european countries are the same - this is Holland and quite permissive generally) is the one you posed: is it ok to serve beer and wine at home?

Her opinion, born out by the studies, was a) under 16s do not know how to act (or drink) responsibly b) giving them a taste of alcohol in the home does actually lead to more teenage alcohol abuse

I will try to find the study, but it was an eye opener for me. I was a believer in moderation like you (and got a phone call from the hospital at 7am on new years day for my 14 year old daughter for my views). Not anymore...

BTW she even went further to say that drinking with dinner was for parents a dubious practice. Also bear in mind that here (and I am guessing America is similar) teenagers are given much freedom and responsibility. In mediterranean countries (like Italy) teenagers are treated like children longer and are given less freedom.

- dark

PS The greater moral of the evening was that we are so used to considering alcohol as a something very normal and even desirable for most occasions. It is in fact beginning to be recognized as potentially very harmful for teenagers. If it were invented today would it be legal? My point here is that it may be possible excessive gaming (and teenagers are naturally prone to excess) can have a negative impact on the brain (like alcohol). If this is so then allowing our teenagers to game may be the easy thing to do, but the wrong one. I am not 100% certain of this but I am concerned enough to bring it up for discussion.

No tolerance.

Live by example.

With a view to gaming, alcohol and any other possible addiction.

Ah, I see. I didn't mean to suggest that I thought young teens could or should drink. In fact, I think 18 is a reasonable age. It's once past 18 that I think drinking in the home should be acceptable, at least based on the other things our US kids can do at that age.

We drink moderately in our house, pretty much nothing but wine and an occasional mixed drink on a special occasion. Our kids were never given a drink, but they were given a sip if they asked. They both hated the taste and so it was never an issue; the first time was the charm in both their cases! Now that they're both over 18 I find it ridiculous that having a drink at home could get them and/or us into trouble.

I also am a firm believer in close and careful supervision. Both of my kids are acquainted with others who have been to unsupervised parties; at the last one, there were 3 reported cases of alcohol poisoning!

I do see how an early introduction to alcohol, drugs or gaming can have an effect on the developing brain. The whole concept has my interest piqued. I think about the French, who rarely have a meal without wine, and that includes the very young. Yet they have one of the longest life-expectancies and a lower rate of alcoholism than many other countries. And then there are the Russians, who have an extremely high rate of alcoholism and consume more vodka than other populations (maybe dreary-weather induced depression?) Perhaps it's being taught to drink moderately and responsibly. I just don't know but I'm ready to read more!

I think that any research on addiction could be loosely applied to gaming. But as my son points out, there is no substance addiction when you're dealing with the internet and he thinks that makes the needed response and recovery hugely different.

In my opinion, responsible parents know their own children far better than any "expert". So maybe the onus must be on what a parent sees as being the correct course of action for education of their child. So for one family that may mean a total ban, for another, control of usage of electronic games be they single player or online. I do think children need to know about the dangers that are on the internet as a whole, rather like the old fashioned warning "don't talk to strangers."

I would imagine zero tolerence would be posible to control within the family home, but what about controling access when the child visits a friend, club, the parent is at work etc, near imposible. Unfortunatly we are very technology based and our children even more so.

In my experience, what is forbidden takes on an allure that entices children to want to experience it, be it drugs, alchohol etc. After working with many substance dependant clients and hearing personal stories, many experienced their particular "drug" of choice when young and without much knowledge from parents or from the education system.

I think if a child is taught about how games may affect them, along with the many other dangers they face growing up, monitering computer usage as well, that is proberly all a parent can do. Good luck to all parents out there.

At the moment, we don't know how games, particularly MMORPG's, affect the young brain, because it hasn't been studied. I was horrified by the changes in my son when he got addicted to WoW, and he was 18 when he picked it up. All the changes we saw have pretty much reversed themselves 3 years out from WoW, but again, his brain was an adult brain when he started playing. We don't have near enough research to conclude that it is completely safe for younger kids to play these games hour after hour. In addition, I worry about online games for anyone under 18, especially things like WoW, where I'm told that the atmosphere inside the game can be abusive, exploitative, and full of adult content. Online games for younger kids put them at risk of being targeted by pedophiles. At the very least, kids should not play games like Club Penguin online with anyone except kids they know in RL.

Yes, it's impossible to stop kids from doing forbidden things at someone else's house. When our kids were younger, we adhered to the recommended age cut-offs for movies. Did they watch R-rated movies at someone else's house? Sure, but at least they did not grow up on a steady diet of them. Will your kids play MMORPG's at someone else's house? Probably, but they won't be playing them hour after hour, day after day.

That being said, I am REALLY glad my kids reached the ages they did before MMORPG's became widely available.

My kids were raised knowing what alcoholism was, or at least I did my very best to teach them that, in our family alcoholism can be traced back to the Mayflower, to an alcoholic being evicted from England for his addiction. There has been alcoholism in our family tree in every generation since then, so they were pretty certain to have it genetically speaking.

At age 5, my parents took us to celebrate Thanksgiving in a Spanish restaurant outside of Madrid. We were with another family and all of us were served alcohol for the first time. My father got up and made a toast, saying that he had read that alcoholism had a hereditary origin and often showed up the very first time an alcoholic took a drink. I remember that my brother got drunk (age 6) and jumped into a glass door and became unconcious...my brothers both remember that I was the one who at age 5, got drunk and jumped into the door.

it is hard for me to accept this, but I'm the one with admitted alcoholism, and one of my brothers is dieing of it at this time. I've been sober since 1983, and off all drugs since 1989.

My children...they are both alcoholics genetically speaking. One is sober now since age 16 and one is still drinking. He is in the room next to me at this time. He is too ill to eat since Superbowl Sunday.

This is my experience. I tried everything in my power to warn my kids about alcoholism, and even had them in treatment for it at very early ages. One got the message and one did not.

So, I'm not saying that it is possible to teach a kid to "drink responsibly"...they either are or are not alcoholic, and if they are, there are no half measures and abstinence is the only way to arrest the disease.

It would be interesting if studies were made to see if the same principles could be applied to those who have an addiction to games. I am certain genetics do play apart but also the environmental situations and learnt behaviour of a child growing up in an addictive home must also be a major factor.

I do worry about the damage to young brains from the use of electronic games. Here in the UK, several studies have been made with the conclusion that computer games are good for children to play as it helps with co ordination, cognitive skills, numerical, lingistics, problem solving and even the more violent games are useful in teaching morals and ethics in a safe environment. A Professor Maria Nikolajeva, from Cambridge University, is leading the main Uk study about children using computer games using them as a means of communication. The education system sugests each child from nursary age, should have access to a computer not just for educational purposes, but also for supervised game sessions. They advise the social interaction of older children playing online games is also benificial as it teaches social skills, team building and co operation. Whilst I am sure they wouldn't allow children to play WOW, these practices entrain children that playing games is acceptable. What is not clear is if the education system will teach moderation in the usage of games. After having worked with children and seeing how food additives can affect them in an adverse way, maybe similar adverse behaviour will be experienced after these play periods.

However, the good news is, the government has advised a series of videos aimed at older children, will be made that will teach about internet danger, mainly informing about safety on the web.

As to Laural's interesting post, I am now wondering that if games are proved to have similar genetic triggers, will the UK stance expose the small number of children, who may have inherited the hereditary tendances, to comuter games, causing the trate to emerge. I know the arguement will be young children may already have been exposed within the home environment as computer gaming is very common, but again, it shows zero tolerence will be very hard to enforce.