I am the first to admit when I am wrong and the first to take responsiblity when I miss something (a trait rarly found on these boards). I never put the fact that lizwool was Sean Wooly's mother together.
So, first I would like to say that I wasnt surprised that my first threat got locked. I mean it did deviate from my original intent, though I am sure it was on the cutting block before it even started off in another direction. It is okay, I will accept the explanation no matter how much I feel the justification was on the lame end.
Second. I am not in agreement that this place is a joke. This place is very serious. This is in no way a place that shouldnt be taken lightly. This kind of blatent finger pointing causes serve damage every day to not only companies but to the public itself. Companies are constantly in meetings with lawyers, spending money to have everything they do checked out with a lawyer, etc. We actually had to have a lawyer approve us hiring an intern here because another internet applied that was african american and HR was worried there would be an issue brought up as to why the white one was taken.
Third. To Miss Wooly. I have read your posts on the other boards now because frankly I was intregied to see what you say. I mean I read the newspaper stories, Ive seen the TV special, but I wanted to see how you came across while not in the shining lights of the camera. You still honestly blame the game for your son's death.
My symphaties do go out to you, they honestly do, as a father I dont know what I would do if I lost either of my children. It would devistate me, I am sure so I am not sure how I would react, however, you claim for others to "take off the blinders" to the world, you should heed your own advice.
You make the statement "I do not blame myself or my son. He was playing the game as intended". How can you honestly believe that? The game is designed to play and have fun. That is all. It is designed for entertainment. It is fiction. It is no different then any other game out there. The same claims could be made for other games: Counter Strike, Age of Empires, Grand Theft Auto, and on the list goes. Now I know your son happened to be playing Everquest, but thousands upon thousands of people play this game AS IT IS INTENDED and are not found having shot themself.
I have said that I am tired of people not standing up and taking responsiblity for their own actions, upon which I was told that here that is what they are doing. People are realizing they need help and dealing with it. To me "I do not blame myself or my son. He was playing the game as intended" is neither of these things. It is again blaming someTHING, not even someone, else for your and your sons problem.
You bring up the Evercrack name that players have dubbed the game. They also call it Evercamp, Evermed, Everwoot, Ever. Players are creative, this is a fantasy game so you find a lot of creative fantasy people out there, that is why things of this nature are said. You selectivly take things out of context to justify to yourself.
The bottom line is that there are thousands of people out there who play and have no problem at all. I am sure this is hard for you to understand as ANYONE who has posted has been retorted with a "Well you are an addict and you just dont know it yet", yet you claim some of us have blinders on.
It reminds me of back in the 80's when there was a band of parents, some of whom suffering from loss of children, claimed that Rock music was the tool of the devil and that it was causing kids to worship Satan and kill themselves at each other. It, like now, is nothing more than convienant blame on what is the going trend at the time.
You, in yourself, have dishonored your sons death. I was on-line, playing Everquest (cause Im an addict according to the people here) when the TV special came on. I happened to be in The Bazaar at the time. The room lit up with people in /ooc talking and making jokes about it. I did not partake as I felt it to be disrespectful, however, to the normal people who stand up for their own actions and to the people not trying to get good heart-tugging TV ratings, it was a joke. It was nothing more than a woman who lost a child and wont take the responsiblity that she needs to.
You cannot blame a game company for making a game that people want to play. That is the idea. If places make games that people do not want to continue to play they will go out of business. It is a very simple concept, however, it is not understood by you.
Your son had seizures from playing yet still played. This in itself, is enough to have him unvolentarily placed into a mental clinic. It is proof that he had intentions of hurting himself. Instead you take the keyboard away...
I am not going to preach any longer because I do realize it is falling on deaf ears. Someone who would go to the extent you have to convince yourself it was the games fault, probably will never see the truth and that is very sad. Until you realize and stand up and take responsiblity for youself and your son, you will never be able to help anyone, including yourself.
As the very old saying goes, Life Isnt A Game.
Lelgolas, your original thread was not locked because of your opening statement, it was because of comments like Jaleel's that caused the post to deviate to a point where no good could have come from it. When leaving it open only serves to create more conflict, decisions have to be made to try and maintain the integrity of the board.
With regard to your statements about Liz, I'd like to really, seriously suggest that you take a few minutes and give liz a call. She's posted her number. She's just an everyday person like you and me, but who lost a child in a way that she doesn't completely understand, much less the reasons behind why Shawn killed himself.
I too, like many here, first learned about Liz from a guild message board posting. I went over to the website, which was only 1 page with no EZBoard at the time, and found a few of the moronic rants that others have been posting.
I could have stopped there and left, or I could have popped on the bandwagon and hurled my criticisms too like many were doing. But I went a step further. I contacted directly and asked for her phone number.
We spoke for a couple hours, and while I was hesitant at first, I asked specific details about Shawn's suicide, her parenting, things about Shawn's life before and during the time he played. I asked about the lawsuit to find that while it was being discussed, was never ever initiated.
When I hung up the phone, I realized that I had learned alot about Liz, about Shawn and about her mission, and a week later, decided to help out with this organization because I believe in what she is doing here. I thought originally that she was some religious bible-thumping whacko. I found out that while she is Christian, she doesn't push her views. If she did, I'm sure she wouldn't have accepted my help with me being Pagan and all.
She and I disagree on a couple important points as to the why Shawn killed himself and what the root causes were, but those point pale in comparison to the importance of a mission like this to help others who are in distress.
Lelgolas, I really encourage you to just call her and talk to her directly. She will even pay for the call if you call collect.
Don't just end with this post giving up because you don't feel your point has been made...go further and try to find that middle ground I spoke of in another post. You'll feel better about all this, I promise you.
Ron
Ron Jaffe AKA Diggo McDiggity
eMail: eqaddict@cfl.rr.com
Discussion Board Administrator
Everquest player from July, 1999 to April, 2002
Over 4,900 Hours Played
Edited by: Diggo McDiggity at: 12/11/02 9:50:17 am
Co-Founder of OLGA and member since 2002
I am in agreement Tosha. I know that there are people out ther mentally and emotionally unbalanced that need to fill a gap in their lives, and they do so with whatever they can find to cling to. What my problem is when people blatently try to blame it on that item.
As I quoted twice Miss Wooly states she doesnt blame herself or her son, but the game that was being played as intended. That is my problem. That is where I have a problem. Do not blame what fills the gap of the incorrectly coded person. It was the person. You may not blame the person, because you could technically say that it is not the persons fault they where coded wrong, but dont blame something that they happened to stumble into as their substitue.
Take responsiblity for your own actions. Stand up and admit that it wasnt the game, the game just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Admit that it isnt the game, that is the person who gets themself addicted... that is all I ask. Dont blame something else out of convieniance and denial that it was infact that person.
Couldnt have put it better my self lelgolas.
I would be most interested in talking to liz over the phone, is there some way you can post how i would connect from england?
By the way, could one of you moderator's please delete the thread posted by the so called christian man who wants all homosexuals to burn in hell. I find that extremely offensive and feel its not helping anything
I am in agreement with both Tosha and Lelgolas. There are people that have problems and need help. The thing I, and other EQ players, have a problem with is people blaming the game and not taking responsibility for their own actions. I have not read a lot of the posts here. There does seem to be a few reasonable people, but Ms. Wooley is unfortunately missing the point. I do feel sorry for you that you have lost your son. It must be a terrible thing. It must likewise have been terrible to see your son's state before he killed himself. The thing Ms. Wooley needs to come to terms with is that it is not the games fault. There are about many thousands of players out there that do not have a problem. Many of us have not lost touch with the real world. We see EQ as just a game. It is just entertainment like movies, TV, books, sports, etc. Are sports evil? No. Should we sue the NFL because of the family that has to deal with the man that eats, sleeps, and lives football while neglecting them? Is football the reason the man has the problem? No! Things are not the problem. It is the people. When people realize this and take responsibility they can get better.
I play Everquest. I played it for about one year and then I took a break. I never even thought about Everquest during the time I took the break. Then I recently got some free time during the week and decided to start playing again. I am in no way obsessed, or as you like to put it addicted, with this game, but I do enjoy playing it, just like any other past time or hobby. Most people play it because they find it entertaining. I have never once wanted to kill myself or anyone else because of the game. Most people I have met that do play Everquest are nice, friendly people. So if the game influences people then why have we not killed ourself, or even become suicidal? Why are not neglecting family and friends? The truth of the matter, Ms. Wooley, is that your son did have a problem. I know it must be hard to accept and it is sure easier to place the blame on something else. But your son was only human, and as humans we do have flaws. Unfortunately your son did not handle his. He probably did not know how. I hope you can learn from this, and if any of your other children start to show the same signs of obsessive behavior you get them professional help before it is too late.