I have read some of the articles and such about games being made to get people addicted on purpose. I also wanted to point out an easily observable fact that, to me, is proof that game makers expect us to play for endless hours. Just look at the scope of video games today. Most of them take an insane amount of time to beat. I think back on something like Mario, and I could easily beat that (twice? ) in a day of powergaming. The first game that made this really sink in was Gran Tourismo 4. Now sure, i've played similarly long and longer games, including GT, and GT2. But it just really sank in one day at how many hours it would require to beat all the races. To get all the liscences. To get all the cars. It's insanely monumental. Can you imagine trying to accomplish that while spending only an acceptable (normal) amount of time gaming!? Man, it would take you like 5 years or something. Yet they make a new one every couple of years or so. There are so many games like this that they cannot possibly expect the target market to be mere casual gamers.
Another really good example is one of my recent MMORPG addictions, which is EVE Online. Now if you aren't familiar with this one, it's a bit different. Your character's skills progress, not through grinding mobs etc. but, through real time. ie. you select a skill, it tells you how long it takes to complete (3 days, 6 hours, 13 minutes, 34 seconds. for example) and it's done after that amount of time. Well some skills take months! That's insane! They get you at first with lvl 1 of a skill taking only 30 minutes but it progressively gets much worse. The skills take so long, and there are so many skills, and they make new ones every 6 months. Which lead some people to estimate that to max out a charater with all skills to lvl5 would take like 20 to 25 years! I don't know how accurate that estimation is, but it seems believeable. And sure some people claim that the game favors non-powergamers because you don't have to actually play to gain skills (lvl up) but you do have to log on everytime your skill completes, so that you can start on a new skill. So you begin to plan your life around your skill training times. It gets pretty frustrating. Now who do you think they are expecting to play these games? Seriously.
I started to think about some of this stuff less than a year ago, and am coming to the conclusion that developers are indeed marketing to powergamers (read: addicts) Any thoughts? examples of your own?
I agree with you on many points. I certainly agree that the games market is getting worse and worse. I have some own thoughts about this.
Somewhere a long time ago I read that the market for casual games is not served. Today it is, but not in the way I would like it to be. I like a game with a tight story, one that works like a good movie or a good book. I am fully prepared to pay 40$ if I get 8-10 hours of really high quality gameplay. If I get more, good, but I donA't need it. Problem is that most games today deliver 40 hours of mediocre gameplay. I blame the itroduction of large scale marketing by companies like EA. Some people say the market has simply grown "mature", and that innovation is too risky to be taken up. Unfortunately todayA's game market has turned into the next hollywood. LotA's of money at stake, lotA's of marketing, lotA's of competition for rare shelf space and complete lack of innovation.
Many reviews provide bonus points for games because one could play them indefinitely and still not have seen everything. By this is not meant that the gameplay is so great that a simple game may be played over and over, but that a complex game with a mediocre gameplay getA's added so many "features", that have to be unlocked, that itA's impossible for a normal player to unlock them all.
The amount of content in Gran Tourismo is a bad hardcore gamerA's joke, you are completely right.
With EveOnline I think that the case is a bit different, I have never played it, but from your description it sounds like it is a feature that the designers have put in to _curb_ powergaming. If you know that it takes 25 years to max all your skills, you ARE forced to specialize, which leads to a different kind of "endgame" than in, for example WOW. The gaining of skills over time may also be an unsuccessful? attempt to ease time requirements on players.
As for these games being addictive... certainly the developers are motivated to put in "motivation over time" content, so that people stay subscribed to the game as long as possible.
What I think they do NOT want, is people to neglect their real lifes, as itA's negative publicity and potentially lost revenues, due to people quitting, people not being able to buy new hardware to pley their new games etc.
On the other hand, games are relatively cheap, so even a monthly fee of 20$ can be caught up by all but the most desolate and sunken addicts.
MMORPGs is also a very competitive market, so they also have to put in features which "pull in" people more than their competitorA's games. These "pull in" features often become more addictive, the more powerful they are.
The one who suffer and rejoyce at the same time are the gamers, as they get bigger and bigger games, but at the same time a better and better working substitute for real life, which lends itself increasingly to hardcore escapism.
"Live without dead time" Guy Debord
After reading some posts again in the "friends and family" forum, my opinion seems to have changed. I have never played MMORPGs, was addicted to "normal" ... offline games.
Judged by the behavioral changes, that these games generate, they should be classified hard drugs. I am not quite sure how physical vs. psychical addiction is defined.
As far as I have understood it, physical addiction, for example from heroin, comes from it quite rapidly substituting your normal endorphin production. THis means that your body stops producing a vital neurotransmitter, that for example is used to block pain and provide feelings of happyness, so one is dependant on taking the drug to not start having heavy withdrawal symptoms, including severe pain.
Online gaming seems to produce a very similar state, though with other hormones/transmitters. It creates a hormonal/brain state of relaxation + tension (mostly positive one) + feelings of belonging + feelings of achievement.
Which is exactly what human beings strife for in real life.
I would have trouble naming the transmitters responsible for these things, but I know that they exist and that the intense production during the gaming phases makes us feel dull and the world look bleary and washed out when off the game.
The game in a way becomes a perfect reality. It is programmed the way that the only real investment you need to put in is time. This investment of time pays dividents in:
Tension + Feelings of achievement = the famous flow state (guaranteed by the level up system etc.)
Relaxation + Feelings of Belonging = Group / Tribal cohesion, feelings of nurturing and being nurtured, protecting and being protected etc.
In a way it is also a utopia, a superreality, as it provides a shortcut to the values, which are most celebrated in our society thourough - as stated above - only the investment of time:
"Achievement" (which is guaranteed in the game, unlike in RL)
through "Achievement" comes "Money" + "Power"
also along goes "being respected" + "Fame"
ok, lost the thread of thoughts for now
"Live without dead time" Guy Debord
Edited by: calm force at: 2/7/06 5:29
another way to look at this: it may be that not everyone needs to finish ALL the levels and get ALL the stuff. Maybe that's on of the of the difference between someone with an addictive streak and the ones who don't have it.
?
a
I don't know how to get a quote in here but this is in response to you recognition that there are real biochemical changes in our brains when we are playing our game(s).
The neurotransmitter is called dopamine, the area of the brain affected is called the limbic system aka "lizard brain" and it is targeted by all the rapidly addictive drugs like speed and cocaine and, interestingly, ritalin.
If you google 'computer game addiction' and look at the hits on page 1, several of them discuss this in a very comprehensible way. I'm sorry that I don't have the link at hand and I'm writing this so I don't have to face the possibility of getting to a place where I can start a game. (I'm now 4 days game free and hoping to make 5 by the end of tomorrow). One women studied computer gamers specifically and showed that the dopamine in the brain of a gamer playing a game is identical to the brain of someone on coke. the same is apparently true of overeaters.
Obviously I'm using my new free time to read about addictions. I'll probably become addicted to reading about addiction. '-)
The association with speed and ritalin is intriguing. I wonder what percentage of game addicts have a history compatible with ADD or ADHD.
thx.
A
Nice post Maxim. I didn't notice your second reply until now.
Quote:"another way to look at this: it may be that not everyone needs to finish ALL the levels and get ALL the stuff. Maybe that's on of the of the difference between someone with an addictive streak and the ones who don't have it".
Well certainly noone needs to beat every level and get every item in a game. But the fact remains that games are made with intirely way too much content. As if they were made specifically for obsessive/compulsive gamers in mind. Certainly they don't put so much content into a game and expect noone to ever use/see it. They know exactly who they are marketing to.
And yes from what i've heard too, the games supposedly give you a supply of dopamine... (and/or serotonin?) some type of neurotransmitter. Food as well. And from what i've read marijuana and alcohol also give you dopamine. (or at least mimics the production of certain neurotransmitters)All of these factors have lead me to a theory that I had/have a dopamine deficiency. Now there is the other problem as well, which is that by increasing your neurotransmitter production to such an extent you are getting desensitized to it, and therefore your brain needs an ever increasing supply to get the same feeling; to remain in a happy state of mind. And when you stop with these neurotransmitter producing activities you get depressed easier than a person who is not desensitized. A way to correct this problem is to reduce these activities and allow your brain to return to a normal state of neurotransmitter production.
This reminds me of when I took Paxil for a while several years ago. Paxil is an SSRI. (Selective Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitor) It inhibits (blocks) the reuptake of serotonin, allowing more serotonin to remain available when needed. (Can't quite remember all the information I once knew about SSRIs so i'll forego the explaination I had planned, lest I look too uneducated. ) But anyhow, the feeling you get from withdrawal of this drug is weird indeed. And can't really be adequately explained. Like a fuzzyheaded sorta dizziness, kinda. But I notice the same feeling on certain occasions and i've surmised that this is a feeling associated with a neurotransmitter imbalance. And I therefore have been associating this feeling with quitting marijuana and/or reducing my gaming time, and other such situations that would lead to a lack of dopamine/serotonin. (probably only if it's severe enough) But that's one theory of mine anyhow. Maybe I should actually look into the studies done in this area (games/food/marijuana/alcohol causing dopamine/serotonin production) and see how valid it all is.
Another theory that i've been working on is that I feel I may have had a neurotransmitter imbalance since childhood and that has lead me on a path of self-medicating; trying all kinds of drugs and addictive activities to keep myself feeling good. Could be genetic or environmental or a combination of both.
Hmm this topic has taken a strange turn now. Oh well, Carry on discussions.
Edited by: InSomeNiak at: 2/15/06 0:49
Quote:Obviously I'm using my new free time to read about addictions. I'll probably become addicted to reading about addiction. '-)
A. , have you ever read the big book of Alcoholics Anonymous. I found it very helpful for myself and am working with it for the 12 step approach. Substitute games for alcohol and you will get a very interrsting and especially enlightening read.
Maxim
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What you think, you create. What you say, you produce. What you do, you call forth more of.
Gaming may cause your body to produce endorphins and other chemicals that your brain just loves making it want to hang out and play games that much more.
But over time, excessive gaming/sitting/staring at pixels, makes your muscles start to atrophy. It makes your eyes start to hurt, your back and arms get stiff. Certain types of brain stimulation can interrupt your sleeping patterns making you tired and fatigued. Since you aren't exercising, you are not getting the oxygen your blood cells and brain need to think clearly. Most people who game excessively aren't particularly interested in a healthy diet, so the body gets starved of nutrients to keep it running properly.
Over time, your body starts to break down and it becomes an effort to do physical things. You begin to feel crappy about that and start avoiding physical activities you once did and then you want to sit and hide from real life that much more.
Then you look and feel fat, out of shape, you hate yourself and you feel guilty for letting yourself get that way...you never used to be like that. You worry that you are being judged by those people you love and that makes you resentful. How did all this happen?
Then hopefully, you wake up one day and ask yourself, 'WTF? Where did my life and health go? How come I get out of breath just going up a flight of stairs? Where did this big fat ass come from? How come I am doing so poorly in my job/school/relationship?
Where did the years go?
It's not rocket science - If you sit in front of a computer screen for hours on end every day, your body will break down over time. It happens faster when your older, but it happens none the less.
Your body was meant to move, to breathe fresh air, to interact with others doing physical things. Your blood cells were meant to course through healthy veins and your muscles were meant to move your body parts. Brain chemicals are wonderful things to help give you pleasure, but they can only work their magic well if the body is in a healthy state to receive them.
Take a number of glass marbles that represents the number of years you have left based upon the average life expectancy and put those in a glass jar where you will see it every day. And then on Jan 1 of each year remove a marble.
It's only when you come to grips with the temporary nature of your existance here that you begin to truly appreciate each moment and realize that gaming is not a moment-appreciation activity.
Ron
"Get a Life!"
Ron Jaffe AKA Diggo McDiggity
OLGA Admin and Member since 2001
eMail: ronjaffe@cfl.rr.com
Edited by: Diggo McDiggity at: 2/15/06 9:57
Co-Founder of OLGA and member since 2002
Quote:Take a number of glass marbles that represents the number of years you have left based upon the average life expectancy and put those in a glass jar where you will see it every day. And then on Jan 1 of each year remove a marble.
This is one of the best advices I have heard ever. So simple and so beautiful.
Thank you Ron, I will do this
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What you think, you create. What you say, you produce. What you do, you call forth more of.